12/07/2005

December 7, 1941


A date which will live in infamy.

9 comments:

Audril said...

16 February 1898: Another day wich will live in infamy

6 and 9 Agoust of 1945: Another days.

11 September 1973: Another day.

Vietnam war, Irak war... ect,ect,ect,ect...............

United States is not a suitable country for victimize himself.

With all my respects.

1031 said...

So are you saying that it's okay that Japan attacked the United States? Are you saying that Pearl Harbor is somehow justified? You do realize that the majority of dates you mention occurred after 1941, right?

I don't think you know me, my country, or her citizens, well enough to pass any sort of judgment.

In the known history of the world, every nation has done things of which they are ashamed (or should be). The United States is not exempt from this.

But to say that we somehow deserved Pearl Harbor (or 9/11, for that matter), that we shouldn't remember and mourn our dead, that they somehow aren't worthy, is disgusting.

Did the Jews in Europe deserve the Holocaust? Did the Muslims in Jerusalem deserve to be slaughtered during the First Crusade?

Don't you dare judge my country. There's plenty of atrocity to go around.

Ithiel said...

Also today is December 7th Audril. Allow me to order you a steaming cup of stfu.

:)

AliKat said...

Hey Audril, do you realize that if Pearl Harbor didn't happen you would probably be posting in German if you were allowed to post at all and your entire continent would be run by Nazis? I don't agree with everything the U.S. is doing now, but we were pretty fucking justified to fight that war and we saved your ass. Even if a war isn't justified we still have a right to mourn our dead, it wasn't their decision to go to war, they just decided to defend their country and should be respected and honored for that.

Audril said...

I`m not saying that it´okay that Japan attacked United States and killed 2043 persons. And It´s obvious that a country must honored that people. In fact, in Europe we must take a bit of example of United States for that things.

But the correct is remembering all dates... The killing in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not better than the killings in Pearl Harbor. And in the 60 anniversary last Agoust, United States rebembered the victory... and not his infamy in that moment. The history is very ambiguous, depends who tell it...



About USA saved my ass is not true: I´m Spanish. For my country, the war starts in 1936, not in 1939. A civil war. Germany and Italy suport the spanish fascist and destroyed the legitimate goberment, voted by the people a years before. The Republic don´t recivied help of any country. Millions of people was killed, a half of the country had to escape of his own land (and many was capturated by the Germans and killed two years after, or was obliged to fight against them by Frenchs) and my country was devastated.

USA not fought against Franco, in despite of that he was allied with Hitler and Mussolini, and years after signs treaty with the spanish fascists, putting military bases in Spain and legitimating a fascist dictatorship and helped to perpetuating that situation.

In fact, my grandparents and my parents don´t spoke German or with nazis running in lands like Basque country or La Mancha, but they and all spanish lived without liberty until 1975, when Franco died (only a few days ago was the 30 anniversary of that)and the democracy returns to my country.

Obviously, it´s logic that USA take care of his own interest in that moment and it wasn´t his responsability to "save" Spain, of course. I´m not speaking about that. The guilty of that situation was of my own people, but you don´t say that USA "saved" my country because it´s not true. In that matter, Spain don´t have any debt with your country. Less arrogance, please.


In any case, for the Europeans in general, USA is a great country and a friend, but it´s not good to looking too his own navel. More self- criticims, more objectively would be motive of thank: It´s ilogical victimize himself in any cases but don´t recognize other things...


--------------
I´m sorry for my very bad explication and jabbering in a bad explication of the situation of my country meanwhile USA saves the rest of Europe ;-) . My english is not very good and write this is a effort for me, but I love to debate, overcoat with people who thinks different of me, (ever when respect exist) .

I cannot understand all that you wrote :(, and I´m sorry for the gramatical faults.

1031 said...

I can't speak for my fellow countrymen, and I would never presume to do so, but I do remember those dates you mentioned. I know what my country has done in the name of "freedom" and "national security."

Today has been the anniversary of Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. This isn't February, or August, or September.

On my previous blog, I marked the anniversaries of the United States dropping the bombs on Japan, not to celebrate the anniversary of the United States victory over Japan, but to mourn the loss of life. On both sides.

As you say, your english is not very good, so what you wrote may have lost something in the translation, so to speak. To me, it read as if you were, like I wrote above, excusing Japan for their attack, or that the loss of American lives was justified because of the lives America has taken throughout history.

The dates you mention are, indeed, not proud dates in America's past. I merely mean to point out that America is not alone in causing death and destruction.

There are many dates on the calender that are dark spots for many nations.

Pamela said...

Yay debate!
I agree, I think all the dates Audril mentioned are significant and need to be remembered, but I don't think there's anything wrong with singling this one out on its anniversary. It completely changed the political and socio/psychological outlook of America. You can still see it in the comments, here.
I totally understand why ya'll got offended, but seeing as how this is Audril's second (or third) language I think he did a reasonable job communicating a complex issue.
So I have nothing to add, really, but wanted to let you know Im enjoying the argument. :)

Audril said...

I want to state that I´m not saying or excusing Japan for their attacks or justifing the dead of people in any case, and the deads on Pearl Harbor deserves everyone´s respect and admiration.

Ithiel said...

My apologies then Audril.